manly-less
Mon, 2006-04-24 14:35 — mrb
The arrival of Ms B jr has made evident my lack of manliness. I've worked this out by the amount of attention from ladies I get if I am feeding her or changing her when we're out and about, and comments along the line of 'I've never seen a man do that before!'.
To Hong Kong's men, I apologise in advance for the troubles I'm causing:
he: sorry dear, it's just something men don't understand how to do, you really have to be a woman to do it right
she: look, even a stupid gweilo can manage it, what's stopping you?
Some gentle questioning of friends and family by MrsB reveals that it is not as black & white as it first looks. Men are willing to do these things, but only in a manly fashion, so...
- holding a baby in public: ok, as long as no form of baby carrier is involved. (I thoroughly recommend the Baby Bjorn carrier. It gets a bit sweaty in summertime, but it still beats trying to manoevure a stroller on HK's busy streets).
- bottle-feeding baby: ok at home, but not outdoors where someone who knows you might see you
- changing nappies: Sorry dear, it's just something men don't understand how to do, you really have to be a woman to do it right
I just wish someone had told me that last excuse before we had our children!
MrB
It's epidemic
On this theme, as we returned from an outing the other day I mentioned to Mrs Tall that I'd like to just go ahead and take out Daughter Tall's braids, and comb out her tangles [I find this activity promotes a oddly calm and zenlike state in the comber, i.e. me].
Anyway, Mrs T stopped cold, looked at me, and said, 'So is there just too much estrogen in this flat for you right now?'.
Omigod, that was, like, soooo hurtful to my feelings and self-esteem!
Manliness
SKbaba is very manly and he carried the SK-bbs in a baby carrier (front style) although he was also adept at carrying them on the back in an old-style Chinese baby carrier. As the eldest of many children, he was carrying babies on his back since he was in primary school.
He is also good at combing hair and putting SK-jie-jie's hair in pony tails, but lacks skill at braiding (making plaits).
He was also good at nappy changes etc. But again, those skills developed from his place in the family (eldest).
I remember reading something about manliness. It's a story that a famous toredor was celebrating a big bull fight and was making a big batch of paella and someone said something along the lines of "Don't you think that it would be more manly for you not to be in the kitchen whipping up the paella and he replied "Anything that I choose to do is manly!"
Wah, Muy Macho!
Is that odd?
(Odd in the good way of course)
I'm curious to know if skb feels he's just an average HK guy as far as his approach goes, or that it's a bit different from the norm.
My own feeling is that mums and dads here still fit more traditional roles (dad earns the money, mum takes care of house and children) than I was used to in the UK. Something like my parents' generation (married in the 1950s) were comfortable with.
I realise that's a huge generalisation, but I was curious if it is just true of our local family, or if it is more broadly true.
Regards,
Mr-"Anything that I choose to do is manly!"-B
Doing his share
I get the impression that he thinks he does more than a lot of fathers, but that it's because he has the time, energy, competence & inclination.
According to some newspaper reports, the "average" Hong Kong father spends less than 20 minutes a day with their kids. That's something we both think is sad.
I'd say our attitude towards childcare and household maintenance is "there's work to do, let's get on with it."
Granted, when the kids were very young we used to vie for who had the "privilege" of doing the cooking or washing up on Sunday, since the other one had to take the kids out to play, wash them, etc. and that was more tiring.
what is manly?
Hey Mr B;
Your post on ‘manliness’ has had me thinking.
Here are several observations/incidents/thoughts that might have something to do with this topic:
More later on this -- still thinking . . . .
Manliness
Hi Mr. T,
Some books that might be interesting while you consider the differences in (forgive the socio-speak) "the construction of masculinity" between where you grew up & here.
1) Louie, Kam. (2002). Theorising Chinese masculinity : society and gender in China. (Cambridge : Cambridge University Press, 2002).
"Kam Louie uses the concepts of wen (cultural attainment) and wu (martial valour) to explain attitudes to masculinity. This revises most Western analyses of Asian masculinity that rely on the yin-yang binary. Examining classical and contemporary Chinese literature and film, the book also looks at the Chinese diaspora to consider Chinese masculinity within and outside China."
http://www.cambridge.org/uk/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521806216
2) Asian masculinities : the meaning and practice of manhood in China and Japan / edited by Kam Louie and Morris Low (London ; New York : Routledge, 2003).
3) Song, Geng. (2004). The fragile scholar : power and masculinity in Chinese culture. (Hong Kong : Hong Kong University Press, 2004).
- deals w/ pre-modern stuff
Kam Louie's book
I went ahead and checked out one of those books you recommended, SKMama, i.e. the Kam Louie one called Theorising Chinese Masculinity. It’s a bit thick with pomo Foucauldian posturing – I just can’t take this stuff anymore, forgive me! – but its basic premises, once sifted out, are really quite solid and interesting:
Some interesting ideas to think about. They seem to fit with on-the-ground observations here . . . .