Batgung

Made you sound like an A team member there, ah well.

Nice posting, really great. Love these tables of information!

Cheers
Alex

About a car--if you live somewhat "out" from things like shopping, groceries, etc, a car can be quite useful (we live relatively close to the Clearwater Bay Beaches). Also, the prices for used cars are very, very reasonable, especially compared with comparable cars in the US. Granted, the yearly licensing fee is quite high, but insurance is dirt cheap (we pay something like HKD 1500 for a year). Fuel is expensive too, compared to the US (roughly $6.50-7 USD per gallon)--we generally only use about one tank of gas per month, so that will tell you how much driving we do. There are times it's cheaper/easier/faster to use the car. There are times when it's not. We have made the choice to have a car because of our location, but we use public transportation whenever we can (often we will park at a park and ride carpark and take the MTR or a bus).

Licensing is based on engine size, so you must choose carefully if you don't want to pay a larger licensing fee.

In general, high-end cars (BMW, Mercedes Benz) are much cheaper used here than in the US, and are very cheap to maintain--because of the high numbers of them in the city, parts and labor are cheap. On the other hand, minivans are as expensive or more so than in the US, and there are a lot of very small, very cramped carparks in which a minivan is difficult to deal with. Also a 7-passenger car (not a minivan) will be more expensive than a "regular" 5-passenger. We started out with a 7-passenger which died in a year, and now have a 5-passenger Saab 900S. We paid a decent price for it and maintenance is not out of this world (though parts are more expensive than a comparable BMC or Merc).

M

A car may be not too expensive to buy, but is expensive to run.  

Average hourly parking rate: $25 per hour in the city, $12 per hour outside city.

Average monthly parking rate: $4000 per month in the city, $1800 per month outside city.

I've been thinking and realizing that I did not include car costs for the simple reason that we don't have to pay to park so I don't remember that part of the cost. isdl and you both point out that the parking costs are a huge consideration besides the other costs. I'm sorry I forgot that originally!

M

Village life really depends on your village.

I lived in a village in Sai Kung for 3 years. Really liked it, had a gorgeous sea view. Parking was non-existent. One neighbor told me that all the parking was reserved for the native villagers & he stopped trying to park there when on his second night, someone left a large stone on his windshield, as a "message".

Other villages have more parking.

I have a friend in a village in a country park where there is no parking or even a proper road. You have to walk along a foot-path for about 5 to 10 minutes to get there from the main road. The village shares some hand-carts.

Other friends once live Pak A in Sai Kung cuntry park. Walking to the main road was about 40 minutes. Most people in that teeny village went to Sai Kung town on their own boats or took the gaido.

I have relatives in a village on Southside of HK Island, free parking galore.

Hi--not meaning to hijack the thread in the direction of cars, but I was thinking as I was driving from Clearwater Bay to Tai Wai yesterday with a sick bird (yeah, it appears the only "exotic" vets are in Tai Wai--not very convenient). Yes, I could do it by public transportation (mini-bus to MTR to KCR to taxi or walk 15 minutes), but it would take me a large portion of the day to get there and back and you're not supposed to transport birds on the MTR (at least according to the scolding signs I've seen there before). The time factor is where it would be helpful to have a car (though, as you've very accurately pointed out, if you don't have the car costs, a taxi is not out of the question--though I don't think I'd take a taxi from here to there and back!).

OTOH, there is a HUGE reason not to have a car, and that is the driving itself. I'm sure there are other major cities in the world with as poorly marked roads as HK has (we had similar problems in Washington DC last year, and terrible construction problems in St. Louis several years ago, so I know they exist), but IMO, HK is a really terrible place to drive. I was so stressed out driving to Tai Wai and back. For the most part, I refuse to drive past the SK/TKO district (except to Tai Wai or Tsuen Wan on the occasions I need to go there). Yes, we have maps. Yes, we plan out our trips in advance as well as possible. But there was a good year and a half that we would leave at least 30 minutes early and make sure we had at least 1/2 tank of gas so that we would have time to get lost and get found again. I hold the maps in my sweaty little hands while my husband drives, hoping and praying that we don't get lost (though I've become very adept at finding out where we are lost--just not how to get back to where we want to be). And if I'm driving without my husband along, I just pray that there are no detours or major construction.

I also don't see a car as a status symbol--it is a way to get from point A to point B. We could easily get along without a car (especially if we consider the costs of licensing vs. the cost of taxis). However, my husband is the one who insists on having it, and since we don't have to pay parking fees, it's not really too bad in the long run.

So if you live in a remote area and have a free parking space, it may be worth it. Or, if you have a very long commute (I have a friend who lives in Tuen Mun and one of his jobs is out here in Clearwater Bay--his commute time driving is 1/2 what it is by public transportation). But HK has about the most awesome public transportation system in the world. I am awed by how far-reaching it is (you just have to budget your time accordingly--for example, for me to drive to SK takes about 1/2 hour--to go by bus, it's about 50 minutes).

If you're a status symbol kind of person then the costs involved with owning a car won't bother you too much I'm guessing (isn't that the definition of status symbol?). If you're trying to decide if you want a care, you need to weigh the factors of cost vs. convenience. It will NOT be cheaper for you to own a car. However, the convenience may matter (if you want to take the time to learn the HK roads).

M

Hi Mr T,

I definitely needed to comment.

Cars; cheap to buy second-hand, criminally expensive to maintain and run. Living in Yuen Long [where?] and working in Sham Shui Po [eh?] the journey takes 30 minutes door to door by car compared to 45 minutes bus journey and the walk to/from bus stops. So convenience is a huge factor. Before the Western Rail opened there was a good chance of enduring this journey a la sardine style. Not fun in the sweatier seasons. Mr T and Mr B are also more than aware of my adversion to being used as a leaning pole or cushion whilst on public transport so for my sanity and others safety - the car is the way for me. BUT; the bus journey is HK$13 [US$2] including using the Tai Lam Tunnel. This by the way, has just increased its toll from HK$25 to HK$28 each way. So minimum tolls is HK$56 plus petrol. Taking this route 6 times a week - I get through HK$500 petrol every 8-10 days depending on how I drive. Add on a couple trips to South side or to the airport and its an expensive ride.

The alternative is the mini drag racing circuit known as Tuen Mun highway which is not for the faint-hearted as the main criteria for driving here is sufficient hours experience on the X-box.

Finding your way around HK is tricky - I think the town planners have a subversive streak. When this is combined with road works, diversions, traffic accidents and/or whole new reclaimed areas - all maps are deemed out of date within 5 minutes of printing.

Parking; I have free parking at work and home so not an issue for now. Public car parks, however, are a personal nightmare. Don't be fooled by those bright glossy signs with HUGE HK$10 printed on them. More often than not, this means HK$10 for 15 minutes with a minimum of 2 hours! You only get burned once. Some of the glossier malls do have reasonable parking fees; IFC, PP and Festival Walk but don't forget they only take Octopus cards or visa.

A lot of car parks do require the parking skills of a stunt driver though. Take note of the scratch marks on car park walls at bumper height - tight corners and wide cars are never a good combination. The same goes for many car doors with dints on the side - usually caused by the door of a car parked 3 inches next to it being opened by a kid/granny/non-car owner.

Village houses - I live in a village house, its my father's village - I love the space, the roof, the front garden. I hate having to do 3 times the cleaning and the huge utility bills. And yes, its far far away from Central/TST/Causeway Bay. Having a car helps.

Ah - to avoid the rock in the window message/removal of tires hint or the parking of a container truck in front of your car for 3 days gesture its best to check beforehand whether you can have parking rights. Your village house landlord is most likely a village family member and can let you know. Otherwise you need to enquire in the most polite terms to the village head whether a space can be made available to you. Sometimes its free, sometimes its not - depends on the village. If you are assigned a space - don't assume you can park anywhere or that your visiting friends can also park otherwise you're back to rocks in the window etc etc. Don't think its because of you - it happens to all 'offenders'. If my friends are visiting - I leave a piece of paper on the dashboard with my phone number so if the 'owner' of the space objects/shows up, they can call first and we can move the car. Its not a foolproof system but offers a slim chance of keeping their car intact.

Batpor

Batpor, loved your post!

Just a couple of reactions:

Gosh, I never realized the Tai Lam tunnel was so expensive! Tunnels (and not the kind MrB goes on about) are the wild card in the cost of HK driving, aren't they? One of the reasons we found using our car so expensive was that we often drove it from east Kowloon or Tseung Kwan O to HK Island, so that meant a return trip through the Eastern Harbour Tunnel, which is similarly spendy. It just adds up like crazy!

Parking, too -- my own personal driving nightmare is that old car park in the middle of Sai Kung town. I'll freely admit (unlike much of the world's driving population) that I'm an average driver at best. I hate tight maneuvering and the constant need to reverse into parking spaces as quickly as possible while the drivers of other cars itching to get past me give me the evil eye. That's why I also tended to favor the bigger malls' less-stressful carparks!

Mom2twoboys has also mentioned the stress of driving in HK, and I fully concur. It's not that bad, I guess, in that if you can avoid the few big highways in HK (e.g. the Tun Muen highway, as Batpor attests) then there's not much high-speed driving like you would get on urban freeways in the USA. But you do have to be constantly on your guard. I don't want to descend into ranting about HK driving skills, but there are high enough proportions of inexperienced and aggressive drivers here to push my personal stress levels above the redline far too often.

And I agree pets can be a big reason to keep a car. In the past Mrs Tall and I had a German Shepherd, and although he was the sweetest boy around, he was not popular with taxi drivers (taxi drivers in HK have the choice of whether or not they'll carry a passenger with a dog). So the car was good, and of course our dog loved riding around in it. But sometimes we had to take him somewhere via taxi, so we perfected the tactic of sneaking up on taxis from behind, then yanking open the door and jumping in as fast as we could. Then, if the driver didn't want to carry us, he had to actively throw us out!

Mr Tall

Driving on the left side was tricky at first, but I've been driving for three years. It's not so much the driving on the left side as it is the exit signs that sneak up on you--as you said, miss a turn, you're out of luck. Some places, yeah, it's no big deal to get around to where you want, but there are some places there is no place to turn around. You are, quite simply, screwed. Even with my scrupulous notes (yes, I have notes of how to get places, like the vet, for example), I live in perpetual fear of taking the wrong exit (like the exit just before the one I want that fakes me out almost every time).

I would rate myself like Mr. Tall--an average driver--and the one thing that bothers me about being on the right side of the car is backing into a parking place. My boys laugh and say they can always tell where I'm parked, LOL.

Fortunately, it's not necessarily the drivers that are the problem--it's the **%&*^%^& signage. We drove from Chicago to Washington DC and back to South Bend this summer, stopping also in Columbus Ohio. We kept commenting on how much warning the road systems give you of exits, merges, etc. That is exactly what is lacking here.

About Mr. Tall's comments on dogs. Our neighbors (who just moved to Uganda) had two tiny silky terriers. When they had to take the dogs somewhere, the taxi drivers usually charged them extra for the dogs, like for bags in the trunk. So they had their fare plus dog fare.

M

The are less signs in the city area than highways: lack of space to put up big signs, may be.  Furthermore, the signs usually direct drivers to the districts or main roads, rather than to the side streets.

If I'm compelled to drive on the next day, especially to an area that I'm not familiar with, I will do a test drive the night before.  It gives me a sense of the new area.  This may sound a bit silly but I don't have to panic on the next day.  But, it boosts the cost of driving.

Another hidden cost of driving: when you are caught by the traffic warden.

Birds or animals are forbidden on public transport except taxi, but subjected to extra charges.

We've been in HK for almost a year now and decided we will get a car. Our family includes a baby and a small dog, and thus far we've been doing ok with public transport and taxis. However, with the fall approaching we want to take advantage of more of the outdoor opportunities HK has to offer. Frankly, this is easier with a car for people with children and pets. Our poor dog is getting almost no outings as it is too burdensome to lug all the babies stuff, our stuff, and the dog on public transportation. I am hoping that having the car will enable us to see parts of HK and take part in activities that we would not have before. If nothing else hopefully it gets us out of the malls!

Further I have found that although people in HK have many positive characteristics, they can be a bit oblivious to the hassles and challenges of a person travelling with a child/stroller. Most of the stuff is minor, from young people taking the easy seats/standing areas on the bus or train, to having 25 people swarm through a shop door my wife holds open before I can push the cart through (even my wife who was born and raised in HK has been embarrassed by this one), to making me push the stroller off a narrow sidewalk on to a street (popular in Soho). Compared to our home in NY City, I find HK a bit more difficult to navigate with child.

A car won't solve all these issues, but I think it will go some ways to mitigating them so that we don't become reluctant to explore because of hassles.

There can be some very beautiful designed village houses with private pools, large gardens and much better than what most any high rise development has to offer on Hk Island or Kowloon.

Hi,

The article is indeed very informative.

I am planning to move to HK this year, and just trying to figure out the monthly expenses. With one school going kid, and accomodation of 2BHK near Central, I work out per month: $7000 (school) + 20000 (accomodation) + (Groceries )15000 + (Travel) 700 + Power/ Gas etc (2000), it works out to be approx $45000. Is this realistic?

Thanks in advance!

Hi Tall,

Its Redwan and living in tokyo. Recently i got a job offer at HK and planning to move coming July. But Im worry about the living expence of HK. Would you please give me clear idea about expences.

Im  a single person and my new comany going to pay me HKD 25000. So do you think its enough for single person to live in HK with this earning. 

Your kind reply would be highly appreciable.

Thanks,

Redwan